Saturday, August 05, 2017

Shorter Video that vindicates Dr. White against accusations of Steve Camp & Janet Mefferd (& Brannon Howse)

https://apologeticsandagape.wordpress.com/2017/08/05/it-takes-a-short-video-to-cut-through-camp-and-mefferds-accusations/


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6 comments:

James Swan said...

I've followed this thing sporadically. I don't know all that much about Janet Mefferd and Mr. House. It's Steve Camp that concerns me. I know he's Reformed in his theology. I hold those claiming to be Reformed to a much higher standard. Mefferd and house, I assume they are both some sort of garden-variety Evangelical (I'm guessing).

But Steve Camp- I know he's Reformed. I abhor the nonsense he's spewing out. He appears to be in leadership in some sort independent Reformed Baptist church. Has anyone contacted his elders and asked them to fairly deal with this, or does Mr. Camp run the whole show? I don't know. In my listening to this controversy, I don't recall anyone mentioning this sort of methodology- of having some people contact Steve privately, then if it continues, contact his church. Has this been done? I read somewhere about Biblical conflict resolution (hint hint)...

It simply seems to me that all parties are running off to twitter and Facebook and blasting away at each other. Certainly I can understand why Dr. White wishes to defend himself. On the other hand, the whole thing disgraces the Gospel and makes the church look like a circus. Is that how the authority structure of Reformed Baptist churches work?? My apologies if indeed all this was attempted to be resolved in a civil way and I missed it. I don't think I missed it, but like I said, I've followed this thing sporadically.

In my own denomination (URCNA), we had a pastor (whose name I won't mention) that was blogging and getting involved in all sorts of controversies, or actually causing controversies. URCNA leadership asked him to stop blogging... so he did! While I might not agree with everything this guy was blogging and doing, that he listened to church leadership demonstrated a heart of humbleness, servanthood, and humility.

Obviously, I side with Dr. White on this whole thing, but the entire controversy does make me wonder what's up with Reformed Baptist churches. Does the Reformed Baptist authority structure have any way to deal with problems bigger than their own independent little worlds? It doesn't seem like they do. In my own denomination, we have an authority structure, while not perfect, would be able to at least make an attempt at resolving a situation like this.

These comments probably will not have any impact. I mean, this is blogger, not Twitter or Facebook. Any Reformed Baptists reading this? What is the Reformed Baptist method of resolving a dispute between two Reformed Baptists in two different Reformed Baptist churches? Is it to blast away at each other on Facebook and Twitter? Please let me know.




10:21 AM, August 10, 2017
James Swan said...

And here's one last ranting afterthought: If this situation can't be resolved through Reformed Baptist church authority, have Camp and White tried to take this dispute to meaningful in-person encounter? I know who the middle-man is: Chris Arnzen. Arnzen has a public platform, a broadcast. Have these three Reformed Baptists (who were all at one time friends) attempted this venue? Is there a holdout among them?

10:47 AM, August 10, 2017
Ken said...

James,
Those are all excellent questions and points.
There are many different kinds of "Reformed Baptists" - there are the official "ARBCA" (Association of Reformed Baptist Churches in America), and then there are Southern Baptist churches that are Calvinistic in doctrine but not part of that Reformed Baptist ARBCA network, and then there are lots of other independent Baptist and Baptistic (on the issue of baptism) churches that are Calvinistic in doctrine, but don't hold to secondary issues like the form of worship (music, dress, Sabbath Day rest issues, etc.) Since a lot of them are autonomous in church authority, there are limitations to what an outside person can do. But someone who takes those steps would have to have all the details, and ready to link or quote & document very specific things.

Steve Camp blocks people who try to reason with him. He blocked me on Twitter after I pointed out issues about missionaries learning other languages and cultures in order to communicate better. It seemed to me like he could not deal with my arguments; and I linked to some of my old articles here at Beggar's All.

I don't know how people can reach Steve, since he is so extreme in just shutting people off who don't agree with him; even in rational questioning / asking questions, etc. - In my opinion, he "lost it" when, in the political campaign season, he went early and unqualified support for Trump and seems to put that as more important than even gospel issues.

12:37 PM, August 14, 2017
James Swan said...

Ken:

Thanks for the info... sounds like Steve Camp is the category I call, "Too Reformed for your own good..."

It also sounds to me like he's got a loose sailing Reformed church, without the church being accountable to anyone outside their own walls... but of course, I'm only speculating.

The authority structure of my church, while not perfect, would certainly rope Mr. Camp in at this point.

12:32 AM, August 15, 2017
Ken said...

This whole recent DL (September 1, 2017) was excellent (refuting Steve Camp)

I especially love Dr. White's point at 1:01 and following:
Steve Camp and other conservative Christians' attitude towards Muslims is:
"The Love of Christ compels us . . . to keep you at arms length and never have any to do with you"
"to check off my tick list that I mentioned Jesus, the atonement, resurrection, repentance, and I said it to you and gave you a track and that is all I have to do"

this whole thing has exposed a great weakness in many conservative Christians' attitudes towards others (foreigners, Muslims, people of other religions, cultures, etc.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3729&v=ZJ-dRgmPjgA

8:17 AM, September 06, 2017
James Swan said...

I haven't listened yet to that DL. Thanks for keeping me in the loop!

11:20 AM, September 07, 2017

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